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Northerner 03-04-2021 23:46

Vaccination passport
Mark of the beast conspiracy aside:

Yes or No?

ChemicalKicks 04-04-2021 21:27

Luke got COVID and died.

He had the best death though, family and friends all said he was mint the entire way through the process. His doctor said he had an epic death.

Visage 04-04-2021 22:58


Originally Posted by Northerner (Post 1026939)
Mark of the beast conspiracy aside:

Yes or No?


Not for any ideological reasons, but simply because it can't work practically.

Malcolm Tucker 04-04-2021 23:21

The public support it, in some polls it's been pretty overwhelming at like 70% for, 20% against. Which surprised me.

My instinct is yes for international travel and maybe some high capacity, close proximity events but other than that, no. The detail is needed in order to distill it down to a clear yes or no answer. But as we've been told repeatedly over the last few years, detail is boring and the will of the people cannot be challenged, if the majority want this, we do it and anyone who disagrees is a traitor that Boris will own .. or something. Vaccine means vaccine.

Moses 05-04-2021 21:55

We need to know what the actual implementation would look like. They’ve only floated a few things via client journalists to test the water so far. Need to know if it’s an ID card by the back door (not necessarily against ID cards, but would be against them being rammed through with Covid as an excuse for zero scrutiny). Etc etc.

A big thing is how useful are they if we have low rates of Covid and a high proportion vaccinated?

yourmum 06-04-2021 00:24

would have to be government issued ID card via the back door so that it can be fully controlled, i.e the ID card has a machine readable chip that is updated via a "chip and pin" device all citizens are issued with that is then connected to a goverment website where you enter a reference number when you have been vaccinated. This then loads your status on to the card which can then be read by a contactless reader at the entrance to every venue / premise you want to enter. If you vaccination status is not known then the doors simply don't open.

1984 style theories aside, this government has neither the skills, intellect or understanding how to even go about implementing this in a robust manner. There is zero infrastructure in place to do this and to say they will simply use an app on a smart phone will automaticlly mean the system is discriminatory against anyone that doesn't have one. Therefore that can't even be a starter, it's not like their shit track and trace shitness that was technically optional. This is something that will have real world implications on peoples lives and freedoms, so pinning their hopes on it being an app in an iphone / android device is basically a pile of stinky bullshit.

i can't see how this will even get off the ground.

Malcolm Tucker 06-04-2021 01:11

Everything else aside...

For simplicity it could probably just copy and paste the driving license model. A new gov department, to process and issue vaccination cards for people who have had it.

Photo ID, DOB, hologram etc and you have to present it at certain places or to have certain jobs. There will be fake ones going around but similar levels to driver's licenses I'd imagine.

The snag will be longevity, how long are we going to say a vaccinated person is "safe"? A year? Maybe 2? It's a lot of admin and cost. They're already on about a third jab in Autumn to protect against the new variants of concern. Will you not be classed as vaccinated unless you've had that as well?

The better option is a semi-permanent card that lasts years, with a chip like you say that identifies you (possibly just as a load of digits as far as the person checking can see) as being up to date on the jabs or not.

Smartphone apps are another option but the average 65 year old in this country can barely text on them, test and trace has been a fucking disaster partially because the people who arguably needed it most didn't know how to use it. It needs to be as simple as getting a card out and showing it/scanning it. Which means a robust backend system that walks the balance between security and privacy and is actually reliable.

So basically, we'll contract it out to a Ltd company that is being set up any moment now by Hancock's sister or something, who will be awarded 50bn to develop some rinky dink system made in "a Python database" which will be delayed for the best part of 2 years and then binned completely.

yourmum 06-04-2021 01:21

so basically it needs to be an "Ihren Ausweis Bitte" style system...............

That's going to go down nicely. Didn't we fight a war for like 6 years to stop this kind of shite ?

Moses 06-04-2021 03:12

ID cards can be fine if done properly. We already see driving licences and passports as normal. Estonia is quite modern when it comes to digital government etc. ID cards work well there and are used for all sorts and can be useful combatting fraud etc,

Malcolm Tucker 06-04-2021 11:12


Originally Posted by yourmum (Post 1026949)
so basically it needs to be an "Ihren Ausweis Bitte" style system...............

That's going to go down nicely. Didn't we fight a war for like 6 years to stop this kind of shite ?

Well I said everything else aside meaning libertarian stuff, its actual efficacy on combatting covid etc because the general public doesn't appear to be that bothered by it. For instance they weren't bothered by new laws that records all your ISP traffic for 12 months, logged to your actual name and address.

Privacy and liberty campaigners amplify the outrage a bit but when asked directly the public are usually ok with exchanging it for 'security' or in this case 'normality' :chuckles:

So if the scheme does die, it won't be because of moral outrage it'll be because of technical barriers or overwhelming incompetence in its implementation

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