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Old 14-07-2017, 14:01   #1
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https://www.rt.com/uk/396318-acid-attack-london-crime/

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Old 14-07-2017, 14:34   #2
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Yea, this is particularly fucking horrendous

THEY NEED SOME GUNISHMENT
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Old 14-07-2017, 15:34   #3
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They are talking about banning the carrying of acid and suchlike, but what difference will that make? About as useful as banning "driving into a crowd of people", no fucking use at all, it's impossible to stop.

There is literally nothing any of us can do about this kind of thing.

IT'S HAPPENING. THE WORLD WILL END.
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Old 14-07-2017, 15:45   #4
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40559973

UK now has most acid attacks in the world, per capita.

There is stuff you can do, as the article there suggests.

A lot of it is gangs doing it apparently, ONE reason being that it is seen as carrying a lesser penalty because it isn't a specific offence unlike knife crime. So simply making it a specific offence with a strict punishment would help for a start.

Then make it illegal to carry acid in a container other than its original one.

(These aren't my suggestions before anyone has a go at me - it's police and acid experts suggesting it.)

There's no need to invoke the perfect solution fallacy as an excuse to do nothing.

The most frightening thing in my view is that we have people among us who are so lacking in fundamental basic human decency and empathy that they would even think of doing these attacks. But we do - and it isn't just a handful of people either.
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Old 14-07-2017, 15:49   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Powell View Post
So simply making it a specific offence with a strict punishment would help for a start.
I don't think it would... the people who carry acid intending to throw it in somebody's face (which IS of course already illegal) clearly aren't worried about the legality of what they are doing. And it's so fast isn't it, you put the acid in a bottle, hop on your moped, and seconds later you commit your crime... and there is zero chance of being caught with it before you are able to use it.
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Old 14-07-2017, 16:01   #6
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Originally Posted by capitalist View Post
I don't think it would... the people who carry acid intending to throw it in somebody's face (which IS of course already illegal) clearly aren't worried about the legality of what they are doing. And it's so fast isn't it, you put the acid in a bottle, hop on your moped, and seconds later you commit your crime... and there is zero chance of being caught with it before you are able to use it.
Quote:
Dr Simon Harding, a criminologist and expert on gangs at Middlesex University, says acid is becoming "a weapon of first choice".

"Acid throwing is a way of showing dominance, power and control, building enormous fear among gang peer groups," he says.

Gang members know there are advantages in using acid to hurt someone rather than a knife because "the charges are more serious if you are caught with a knife and the tariff for prison sentences are much higher".

Dr Harding added that "acid is likely to attract a 'GBH with intent' charge while using a knife is more likely to lead to the attacker being charged with attempted murder"

"There's no specific offence of throwing acid. It's a harder offence to prove because there is rarely any DNA evidence and its much easier to dispose of a plastic bottle than it is a knife."

Dr Harding says the government needs to attack the problem on three fronts.

He says acid is too easily available, sentencing needs to be brought into line with knife crime and a programme of education is required.

"Gang members do respond when they realise a victim of an acid attack may never work again or may need 15 or 20 plastic surgery operations."

Asked what can be done to stop it, ACC Kearton says: "To have an acid in a different bottle to the one it was purchased in can be an offence, we can also regulate volumes of sale, we can regulate ages at which people can buy it."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40559973

Got any better ideas?
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Old 14-07-2017, 16:03   #7
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Why don't they just make it so you need a license to buy acid like that? It's only the ability to make it difficult to obtain that would really deter someone who wanted to use it. It must be an industrial chemical and I'm amazed it's readily available anyway.
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Old 14-07-2017, 16:14   #8
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Quote:
What does the law say?

There are no age restrictions on buying household bleach or drain cleaning products containing acid in the UK.

There are rules which limit the sale of certain substances under the explosives precursors and poisons (EPP) rules aimed at businesses who sell or supply such chemicals in bulk.

The Met said it was working with retailers to raise awareness that people might be buying corrosive substances to use as weapons.

But Jaf Shah wants the government to make it compulsory when purchasing corrosive chemicals to pay by card that is traceable to an individual and to make acid available only under licence.

Labour MP for East Ham Stephen Timms has tabled an adjournment debate for Monday in the House of Commons on the rise in the number of acid attacks.

About a third of last year's acid attacks in the capital took place in the London borough of Newham, which is in his constituency.

Mr Timms says he is "most concerned about sulphuric acid" and that carrying a bottle without justification should be treated as an offence, like carrying a knife.
So yes there is a lot more they could be doing, and hopefully they will pull their finger out and get on with it.

You can't eliminate it entirely, as you'd have to ban all sorts of everyday chemical products used in the household. (Even if you made it so you need an ID to buy drain cleaner, the gangs would just get an adult to buy it.)

I think the main thing is tougher penalties and education, as well as peer pressure. It needs to be something you will be shunned by your peers for doing, rather than being celebrated. How do you fix that mentality? I don't know.
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Old 14-07-2017, 16:22   #9
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Old 14-07-2017, 16:49   #10
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They must be way stronger than bleach and cleaning chemicals though. Must be proper industrial grade stuff that's only used for very specific purposes.

That article has conflated acids with alkalis as well because bleach is on the other side of the pH scale
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