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Old 22-05-2018, 11:19   #21
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Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
Still cunted, the dash flickering is all sorted but it didn't start this morning. Died on key turn, no life. Had to disconnect battery and reconnect for it to come back again, then did its usual choked attempt to start on first go, then roared into life on second.

Canal?
Jew built car designed to fail so you have to spend money fixing it or replacing it.
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Old 22-05-2018, 11:26   #22
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Japanese.
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Old 22-05-2018, 11:31   #23
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I'd still be getting a cheap odb2 reader, just to see if the car actually knows what's wrong with itself.

What happens if you don't actually disconnect the battery, but fuck around with the positions of the leads, as if you were going through the motions, and potentially moving a loose connection back into place?
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Old 22-05-2018, 11:35   #24
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It eventually comes back, but takes longer. Reseating the terminals fixes it straightaway.
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Old 22-05-2018, 11:48   #25
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You just plug a reader into them, you fucking dolt.
Which obviously (or not, to you) doesn't always tell you the full story.

I've heard enough horror stories of mechanics replacing expensive parts because of what the computer told them, only for it not to fix the problem because the error code was a symptom of something else, and not directly what the error code said it was.

Spare me the tedious answer about how this never happens.

When you hear enough stories of people spending 500 - 1000 on new parts the main dealer 'experts' said would fix the problem, and it turns out the original part was fine, it was just a fucked wire or something cheap somewhere, you learn to be sceptical. Or perhaps one day I'll know everything, like you (think) you do.
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Old 22-05-2018, 12:11   #26
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Modern cars are now so complicated even MECHANICS can’t understand them, says poll

More than a third of complaints about servicing are from drivers saying 'experts' can't find fault, according to survey

Auto Express said: “The biggest complaint dealers face is mechanics being unable to diagnose a fault.

“As cars become more advanced, the number of potential problems grows. Our watchdog team deals with such cases every day and this is only set to increase.”

It added: “Electrical gremlins remain the single biggest problem owners face and with more kit than ever fitted to modern cars, there’s a high chance you’ll be left heading back to your local dealer for a system reset or update."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/151383...hem-says-poll/
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Old 22-05-2018, 17:48   #27
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Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
It eventually comes back, but takes longer. Reseating the terminals fixes it straightaway.
Sounds like a dodgy terminal to me mayte

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Originally Posted by Enoch Powell View Post
Which obviously (or not, to you) doesn't always tell you the full story.

I've heard enough horror stories of mechanics replacing expensive parts because of what the computer told them, only for it not to fix the problem because the error code was a symptom of something else, and not directly what the error code said it was.

Spare me the tedious answer about how this never happens.

When you hear enough stories of people spending 500 - 1000 on new parts the main dealer 'experts' said would fix the problem, and it turns out the original part was fine, it was just a fucked wire or something cheap somewhere, you learn to be sceptical. Or perhaps one day I'll know everything, like you (think) you do.
I think maybe his point is more to do with that if we followed your logic then we'd all still be driving round in Ford Cortinas you fucking curmudgeon. Yes, of course they are incredibly more complex (not unnecessarily so - what would be the point for either the car company or the driver), but they bring about huge advantages in being so.
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Old 22-05-2018, 18:02   #28
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Sounds like a dodgy terminal to me mayte



I think maybe his point is more to do with that if we followed your logic then we'd all still be driving round in Ford Cortinas you fucking curmudgeon. Yes, of course they are incredibly more complex (not unnecessarily so - what would be the point for either the car company or the driver), but they bring about huge advantages in being so.
Nuance... modern is good, but not to excess. Nobody is suggesting points and carbs are better than electronic ignition and fuel injection for example.

Quote:
I think there is a balance to strike.

Clearly, we don't want to go back to the days of carbs and points but the complexity of modern car systems is just mind boggling. I've got a mate who works in the trade who has plenty of horror stories. Its not that things break or go wrong but the fact that when they do its usually expensive.
He dealt with a car that had come in because the (factory) phone kit didn't work.
It was determined that the phone control unit had gone faulty. Easy.
Except the part had been superseded.
To get the new part working it needs a firmware update, which is loaded by putting a cd in the cd changer and following a procedure.
Doesn't work, because the cd changer is too old, it needs to be updated.
So that gets replaced too.
Only now, that doesn't work with the media control unit. So thats box number 3.
Which doesn't work with the controller for the dash display, so the driver cannot see the radio/heat/ventilation settings.. Box number 4.

2k later everything works, crazy given the car was a fairly cheap auction purchase.

Its not just convenience features either.
A reasonably popular model had a firmware upgrade to a control module - standard stuff, happens at every service.
Until several cars ended up back on the forecourt, offloaded by breakdown trucks. Turns out the firmware update had a fault that meant the electronic handbrake wouldn't release, at all. Much fun was had trying to get the cars in to the workshop.

Cars that have fibre optic networks for CANBUS are nothing new.. they need the fibre to keep the bandwidth up, because there is so much data flying around. Brake control units will know when wipers are on, wipers know what gear is selected, battery management controller knows when the windows are open.. it just goes on and on.

I can't help but think the 90s were the best time - we had the benefits of things like injection, ABS etc without the over complexity.

It all works out nicely for manufacturers. An 8 year old car with complex systems that develops a fault is not economical to repair. Home mechanics (or even your back street guy) can unplug a controller and plug in a new (or even used) one, but they don't have the manufacturer specific kit to be able to re-program the controller, so they can't fix the fault.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...t=1216544&i=20
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Old 22-05-2018, 18:04   #29
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There's too many stories like this...

Quote:
My MK5 Golf went to an independant VW specialists in Birmingham a couple of weeks ago. The reason for taking the car in was that it was turning over but not starting.

The canbus system on the car was intermittently dropping in and out but I managed to get a full list of the faults that the car was throwing up using a VW fault code reader I have and passed this onto the garage as a head start for them.

A couple of days later, the garage call me to say that they suspect main ECU was the problem and to keep costs down could send it away for test and subsequent repair if necessary. I questioned this first off as the ECU has little input on the cars canbus system which was evidently where the fault was. As they are the specialists, I took their word and agreed.

The ECU came back a week later. It was confirmed by the testers as not working correctly and they repaired it. The garage refitted the ECU and still no joy. Same issue as before - the car turns over but does not start. They dug a little further and found the gateway car to the canbus system had failed (severe water ingress had caused the card to literally discintegrate). A new card was fitted and the car is now fine.

Now onto my issue. I'm due to collect the car on Monday and the final bill is expected to be in the region of 1000. I have no issue with the gateway card and a few hours labour - about the half the bill. What I object to is an ECU repair that I don't think was necessary and certainly didn't cure the fault.

Do I pay the full bill and be happy or dispute the circa 500 ECU repair that didn't cure the fault? My grounds for dispute would be that if the garage was competant then they would have found the canbus gateway card was at fault before deciding to send the ECU away for testing?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=23&t=1238559

Bloke's down a GRAAAHND just because a bit of water got in somewhere
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Old 22-05-2018, 18:14   #30
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Swings and roundabouts innit. Some electrical problems on modern cars can be hard to diagnose because of the reliance on the electrical system. But on the flip side it’s possible that the car will be able to tell you exactly what’s wrong with it.
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