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Old 05-01-2016, 17:17   #11
Enoch Powell
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Shadow culture secretary who I hadn't heard of has been sacked, he was just on the news moaning about it and criticising Corbyn.
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Old 05-01-2016, 17:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
Nail it as in presents a false dilemma? Also that article and everything I've read by him is Tories Tories Tories... which is fair but I question whether that has become his niche.
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Old 05-01-2016, 17:54   #13
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What false dilemma?
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Threads are being trashed and derailed with petty squabbles and insults. Nobody minds a bit of banter but it soon descends into insults and the thread is ruined.

Neither myself or iam want to spend hours cleaning threads up and dealing with RTM's so do us a favour and reign it in a bit please.

This is now serious business.
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Old 05-01-2016, 17:57   #14
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There is more critical thinking to be found in the Mail nowadays. I don't mean the Mail's editorial stance but the fact they allow a true range of opinion from pro to anti establishment (such as Peter Hitchens), and allow articles which are totally against the paper's own stance.

The Guardian these days is an establishment paper which is nominally 'anti Tory' but doesn't offer or support any alternatives. Its editorial stance of being anti-Corbyn is an example of that.
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:01
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:02   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
What false dilemma?
Labour’s war of attrition must end – or the Tories will keep running amok

We shouldn’t be opening the year debating Labour’s internal structures, its personalities, its machinations. What should we talking about? Take your pick. How communities are being put at risk by the Tories’ cuts to flood defences?




I supposed the second isn't an explicit false dilemma because it merely implies a replaced action
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:07   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSultanOfShoeVomit View Post
Labour’s war of attrition must end – or the Tories will keep running amok

We shouldn’t be opening the year debating Labour’s internal structures, its personalities, its machinations. What should we talking about? Take your pick. How communities are being put at risk by the Tories’ cuts to flood defences?




I supposed the second isn't an explicit false dilemma because it merely implies a replaced action
And if you suggested to him that 'communities are being put at risk' in other ways which he in fact supports staunchly, he'd be all
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:08   #17
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It's not a false dilemma to express frustration at an opposition being shit at as the opposition, the goverment has a WAFFA THIN MINT majority and a strong opposition need not be ineffectual, with the SNP and moderate Tories the government can easily be held to account on a range of issues.

Instead we have them acting like it's now a single party state, openly moving the pieces on the board so as to increase their majority in 2020. House of Lord reform, boundary changes, and a lack of coherent opposition means they're not simply deluded about carving out near-permanent power, they have a realistic prospect. Who the fuck will stop them? Scotland/SNP is on a trajectory out of the UK, sooner or later. Lib Dems are a husk. Labour is the only opposition realistically and they're more bothered about taking to twitter to slag off their leader or selecting the front bench he wants. In days gone by the government would have been crucified for cutting flood defences and then having record flooding, but now, they barely suffer a word of critcism, and any they do they can shrug off quickly because it's in the form of single potshots from the odd MP, rather than a single unified opposition smashing them over the head in every media appearance, every QT etc.

You don't need to be a Labour fan to want the government opposed properly, otherwise it gets complacent, shit and everybody suffers.
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:14   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
It's not a false dilemma to express frustration at an opposition being shit at as the opposition, the goverment has a WAFFA THIN MINT majority and a strong opposition need not be ineffectual, with the SNP and moderate Tories the government can easily be held to account on a range of issues.

Instead we have them acting like it's now a single party state, openly moving the pieces on the board so as to increase their majority in 2020. House of Lord reform, boundary changes, and a lack of coherent opposition means they're not simply deluded about carving out near-permanent power, they have a realistic prospect.

Do you even read this shit? Sound a bit abstract, no?

What Owen Jones has suggested is that we shouldn't/can't be concerned about X because of Y when there is no reason we can't do both.

1) I don't need Owen Jones to tell me how to think or feel

2) There is no reason we cannot do both



The only reason we get articles like this is because of a proliferation of under-active, over-opinionated politics fanboys whose literacy skills far outpace any other aspect of their critical thinking.


Quote:
You don't need to be a Labour fan to want the government opposed properly, otherwise it gets complacent, shit and everybody suffers.
If the system isn't working, perhaps more system isn't the answer.
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:16   #19
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Well he's right, it's the reality of party politics, you can't have a divided opposition taking on a united government. Well, you can, but it won't work. It's distracted, and us by extension, by internal party bullshit when the Tories strut about doing what they want like a dog with two dicks. Seriously, I bet they can't believe their fucking luck some days.
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Old 05-01-2016, 18:22   #20
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I think the biggest problem I have with what you just said is that it sounds like you're advocating the usual pack of cronies... I felt that Corbyn wasn't going to offer that. Also, it's unsurprising how you prize policies when it suits you, but now seem to think that policies aren't enough and obedient support is required.

Also, it doesn't address that I don't need Owen Jones telling me how to think and that his writing is a false dilemma.
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