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Old 18-10-2017, 12:01   #21
Malcolm Tucker
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Originally Posted by Stagflation View Post
Yes they did. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rules-outlawed

A criminal act is a criminal act, we've had laws against female genital mutilation for a long time yet no convictions. In that sense even applying the current laws would be revolutionary.

There is a difference between a Muslim breaking the law and an Islamist inspired crime, the first is simply a criminal but I think there is a question over what we do with the 2nd.

If people are identifying as Islamists and commit terrorism offences, would you have a problem with eventually deporting them? Obviously for 2nd and 3rd generations etc this gets tricky, but quite frankly if these people have no respect for the freedoms of our nation they should cede any right of citizenship. What to do with them after that though, send them on a boat to Syria?

What are their insidious views? Any more insidious than the example of Muhammad in Qu'ran? Perhaps there is a slippery slope towards camps for Muslims, but quite frankly if they have integrated to British values then there would be no problem.
a criminal act is a criminal act - err new laws can be made stag, the 'law' isn't some single solid unmoving thing you either enforce or you don't, come on, basic stuff. Ever heard of a law you think 'thats just stupid' but it's illegal to do nonetheless, perhaps, oh I dunno, CANNABIS? it's not as simple as if it's the law then it's the law and is ok to punish people for surely to jesus, which was clearly my point.

You may discern a difference between Muslims and Islamists but she affords no such distinction. All of Islam is bad, basically. Another manifesto point, kids in school need to be taught 'the truth' about Islamic scripture. What does that mean? Some cunt reading out the batshit Koranic passages and suggesting that's literally what all Muslims believe?

I'm an atheist and I hate organised religion, Islam included, but you could do the same with the bible when it comes to stuff like that. It's not the way to teach people about a religion. It's just adding ignorance to ignorance. I'm not saying pretend to kids it's 100% innocent and peaceful either btw, but this is just the other end of that
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:05   #22
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The logo is awful.
Britannia's trident I guess.

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No doubt another fake kosher nationalist 'anti-extremist Islam' (but Islam itself is great and diversity is our strength) party
I think she's genuine, if she was fake her presentation would be less amateurish.

I guess the proof is in the pudding though and if they can make a distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Basically if they make the mistake of being critical of Islam as a de facto position of being apologists for/supporters of Israel. Sadly whilst people naively still think 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' I'd be surprised if they're able to.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:06   #23
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Are those the British values that no-one seems able to define?
yea visage is right guys

britain has no values
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:09   #24
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yea visage is right guys

britain has no values
What are they then?
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:16   #25
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Britannia's trident I guess.
I've learned something new today (no sarcasm) I still think it's quite off-putting though. Aggressive? Anyway that's just my first impression.

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I think she's genuine, if she was fake her presentation would be less amateurish.

I guess the proof is in the pudding though and if they can make a distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Basically if they make the mistake of being critical of Islam as a de facto position of being apologists for/supporters of Israel. Sadly whilst people naively still think 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' I'd be surprised if they're able to.
If they are NOT pro-Israel then they will be different from all the others (UKIP, EDL, Britain First, Pegida, Geert Wilders's PVV et al) so I agree it will be interesting to see.

Either way, I expect this party is going nowhere but I'll try to keep an open mind.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:18   #26
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a criminal act is a criminal act - err new laws can be made stag, the 'law' isn't some single solid unmoving thing you either enforce or you don't, come on, basic stuff. Ever heard of a law you think 'thats just stupid' but it's illegal to do nonetheless, perhaps, oh I dunno, CANNABIS? it's not as simple as if it's the law then it's the law and is ok to punish people for surely to jesus, which was clearly my point.
The law isn't perfect and never will be, but it seemingly hasn't been applied where it should of done out of fear of being branded racist.

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You may discern a difference between Muslims and Islamists but she affords no such distinction. All of Islam is bad, basically. Another manifesto point, kids in school need to be taught 'the truth' about Islamic scripture. What does that mean? Some cunt reading out the batshit Koranic passages and suggesting that's literally what all Muslims believe?
Isn't religious studies about learning about religion? Should we teach sanitised caricatures? Hell let Muslim children be taught the tenets of 'their' faith...

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I'm an atheist and I hate organised religion, Islam included, but you could do the same with the bible when it comes to stuff like that. It's not the way to teach people about a religion. It's just adding ignorance to ignorance. I'm not saying pretend to kids it's 100% innocent and peaceful either btw, but this is just the other end of that
Perhaps but maybe certain truths are needed to reground our political landscape away from happy clappy multiculturalism? We're at a point now where criticism of Islam is apparently all from irrational fear, what caught my attention about this woman is that she is being politically incorrect about problems that for too long have been brushed under the carpet.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:23   #27
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For many years, I was a member and activist with the Labour Party. This is because I believed, and still believe, that the decent working majority (of whatever income) is the backbone of Britain.

I believe in the NHS, in trade unions that work for their members to have decent standards and pay, I believe in small business over corporate monopoly. It is because I believe in these things that I could no longer remain a member of the Labour Party – it had become a party of the champagne sipping socialist elite that was happy to betray British people for their open border dreams. It is no longer a party For Britain.

I believe in sensible migration that is in the interests of Britain. Immigration is not a bad thing; the countries of the world should not be closed off from each other. But it must be that immigration is carried out in a way that allows the host state to remain itself, to retain its own identity and values – values shaped by its own history. People have a right to enjoy what their ancestors built. Therefore, immigration must be in small enough numbers so that it doesn’t threaten the host society, it should also be from countries and cultures that are compatible with the host society. It is, I believe, a betrayal of a nation to invite a culture or people who may very well present a threat to the host society. Immigration must be For Britain.

Over several decades now, people have come from all over the world to live in Europe, and many have made an outstanding contribution. Many have joined our Western civilisation and become part of it. In other instances however, people have come to Europe who bring with them beliefs and cultural values that are simply not compatible with ours.

Centuries of political and social revolution, the enlightenment, science and the advancement of civil rights have made Europe the cradle of Western civilization. Democracy, science, law – Europe has been at the forefront of these and we cannot turn back now to accommodate people from countries that have not experienced our progress. Islamic culture for example has not, and the people of Britain, and across Europe, are paying a heavy price for this. Women and girls in particular are paying a price as disgusting attitudes towards females are imported wholesale. The rape, abuse, and humiliation of women at the hands of Muslim immigrants to Europe is too widespread to accurately record. Women of Britain did not spend the last century fighting for their rights, only to see them crushed now by immigrant communities.

Workers too have fought for decent working standards and decent pay, only to see these jeopardized in a jobs market now flooded by mass unskilled migration resulting from open borders.

Many people in Britain can no longer afford their own home because the housing market too has become flooded by mass migration, and costs have inevitably risen.

The NHS is a wonderful institution, it is based on the notion that nobody should be without available healthcare as a result of their earnings. I support this concept 100%, but it can only work if done right. I have worked in the NHS for many years and I can see what the problems are: excessive bureaucracy and ‘management’, waste, and lack of accountability are hampering the NHS. I believe that local people ought to have the power to hold senior NHS management to account if their hospitals fail. Political leaders must realize also that the NHS cannot provide medical care for the whole world, it must be For Britain or it will not survive.

Policing in Britain must change, and change fast. Police are now strangled by a political correctness which has caused a two-tier legal system to develop, and white Britons are held to a separate standard than non-white groups or immigrants. This must stop. We must have one law, applied equally to everyone. This law must not prioritise minority or migrant groups above Britons, it must be a law that is for all, as law that is For Britain.

These are the fundamental beliefs that underline my For Britain campaign. This is why I joined the UK Independence Party, the only party that is truly loyal to Britain, and why I intend to pursue pro-Britain policies within the party.

If you are For Britain, if you want Britain and its people to be the number one priority of British Government, join me, let us stand up For Britain together.

– Anne Marie Waters
http://forbritain.uk/are-you-for-britain

Nothing there I can find to disagree with. It is where the Labour party should be, except they have become socially marxist and economically capitalist, both of which betrays their core supporters.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:30   #28
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Well my point is quite clear that learning about religion is important but it's about doing it with balance, you give them a broad view, how Islam is peaceful for many Muslims but of course it's not for others. I would want a lesson to strike that balance. I don't think a politican who has positioned her belief from the outset as 'There is one Islam' and 'Islamism is just an apologist word for people who can't face the truth of Islam' is probably not going to, or is interested in, that balance being achieved.

In terms of sugarcoating religion to avoid offence, yeah, I dislike that, but you know Christanity gets away with it way more than Islam ever has? Our roots of Christianity here, the perception of us being a 'christian country' means RE in our schools concerning Christianity is very airbrushed in terms of its history and values. We don't talk about the lord's resistance army very much do we?

If we're going to shine a light on religion in very critical eye, a Dawkins style tear down of scripture, beliefs and delusions creeping into politics then we do it on everything surely? The US is a very good example of Christian fuckwittery running amok in their political decisions. That is probably a greater threat to US, and the West, than 'Downing street being turned into a mosque' - but we should guard against all forms of religious nonsense, not just Islam
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:36   #29
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Christianity is already here and the dominant culture (even if like me you aren't religious).

Regardless of its rights and wrongs, it's already here.

Importing a completely alien religion / ideology en masse which is at odds with the existing culture is utterly retarded, or an act of suicide / sabotage against our society.

WHY are we doing it? Answer: there is no good reason why. It's basically because we were told we had to.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:36   #30
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The problem with these parties, be it EDL, Brontain Fist, UKIP, BNP etc. Is that they pander to morons. That's why they inevitably collapse in a shit storm of factionalism and recriminations.

They're typically poor at defining what they're for, being defined largely by what they're against, and they have a track record of screwing up whenever they get a sniff of power, such as when the BNP got a few councillors.
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