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Old 09-05-2017, 18:33   #11
Malcolm Tucker
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I'm not going to argue on whether the textbook definition is wrong because it almost certainly isn't, I'm just answering your question about how socialism may still manifest in 21st century Britain under parties like Labour.
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Old 09-05-2017, 20:11   #12
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I see neo-libralism has now lost all meaning in the way that establishment had previously.
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Old 09-05-2017, 22:01   #13
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The establishment shifts, neoliberalism hasn't really, perhaps it's less of a buzzword as people have more understanding of it.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:21   #14
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Do you think they do?

It seems to me to have become a pejorative used by the right with little understanding of it's meaning. I've seen Trump supporters decry neoliberalism and use that to justify their support of him. Yet he's a man who earns billions out of acquisition of property and is right now attempting to transfer public funds allocated to try and improve the health of the poorest in USA and reallocate into tax cuts for big business.

Conversely I've seen the EU referred to as a Neoliberal organisation when actually compared to national governments, they often more push for personal freedoms and protections. Even the case of Apple in Ireland pushing for the redistribution of capital away from business, overruling their own government.

To me, it's become a term used often but understood little, often conflated with globalisation, automation etc.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:42   #15
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Some people do, others still juts repeat it as a buzzword. I'd argue it's used far more by the left than the right. Wouldn't surprise me to hear Trump supporters mention it because his campaign was a populist scatter gun approach of saying pretty much anything. I guess it's almost a synonym of globalisation which was a key thread Trump latched onto.

You mentioned the establishment well I'd argue that neoliberalism is the dogma of the establishment, arguably also called the Washington Consensus.

I can't see how the EU is anything but a neoliberal organisation, look what is has done to Greece. It may push for certain freedoms but at its heart is an elite that will push whatever reforms and privatisations it can to keep the financial system going.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:47   #16
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Yeah, the EU weren't doing enough. Better off with hard-line Tories.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:57   #17
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Simplistic interpretation. In what way are the strategies of the EU any different to 'hard-line Tories'?

The revolving door looks exactly the same to me, do your bidding as a puppet for the economic establishment whilst a politician and then walk straight into a bankers office.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:58   #18
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Well if you ignore the example Chuckles literally just gave you about tax re-distribution then no, no difference at all.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:12   #19
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Plenty of tax redistribution goes on in our system.

But the example of the EU demanding Ireland to demand taxes from Apple is laughable whilst Juncker sits as president of the Commission. A person who spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-cables-show
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We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man.

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Old 10-05-2017, 10:22   #20
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Junker won't last forever and what I find laughable tbh is how we have dismissed an institution largely in its current incarnation since about 2004 as inherently corrupt and beyond reform and improvement and chuck it all in the bin to give the right of the Tory party unprecedented control on employer rights, tax etc in the vain hope they'll implement what you're annoyed the EU hasn't.
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