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Old 10-01-2018, 10:40   #1581
Malcolm Tucker
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Originally Posted by Stagflation View Post
Pretty much but who knows what the alternative timeline would look like with a Clinton victory, we could be talking about troops deployed in Syria or Iran.
Hmm. Counterfactuals like this are a bit shit IMO because they're complete speculation. Trump hasn't exactly been been shy with his foreign policy, he ordered an airstrike on a Syrian airbase, he's provoking the shit out of Palestine, he's stirring up Iran and he's baiting North Korea. He's done the kind of stuff his supporters said "war monger" Clinton would do.

To say 'OH BUT CLINTON COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE, WE MIGHT HAVE HAD TROOPS IN IRAN' sounds a bit overblown to me. I think it's more likely we would have seen from Clinton something closer to Obama, rather than being more like Trump. Especially when you consider a part of Obama's legacy was the deal with Iran's nuclear programme. Trump has torn that up and done his Muslim ban, cooling diplomatic relations with them. It's difficult to see how Clinton is the one who would have rowed back on Obama's administration even more than Trump and started shipping troops over there.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:44   #1582
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Hmm. Counterfactuals like this are a bit shit IMO because they're complete speculation. Trump hasn't exactly been been shy with his foreign policy, he ordered an airstrike on a Syrian airbase, he's provoking the shit out of Palestine, he's stirring up Iran and he's baiting North Korea. He's done the kind of stuff his supporters said "war monger" Clinton would do.
Yes, but don't blame his pre-election supporters for hoping he would actually do what he promised. Blame him for doing a 180 on all of it.

Of course, anyone who is still his supporter now, is either particularly slow or just one of the usual 'patriotards' who thinks the way to make 'murica great is by threatening, invading and killing as many foreigners as possible.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:45   #1583
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You seem far surer of what Clinton would have done than I am.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:49   #1584
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Basically before the election: we knew Clinton was a lying sack of shit, and a psycho nutcase. She was also warmongering before the election, so to think she would continue doing it afterwards was obvious.

We knew Trump was a conman, but his supporters hoped that just maybe he was conning the establishment, and he might follow through on his impressive rhetoric to stop the foreign wars and so on. For many it was a case of holding their nose and giving him a chance, because it was going to be one or the other.

A known shit candidate versus one who might be shit but might not.

Blaming his supporters would simply be victim blaming. He's screwed his supporters. (Or at least, the nationalist ones. The warmongering internationalist capitalist ones are still cheering.)
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:56   #1585
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You seem far surer of what Clinton would have done than I am.
Well part of why she lost was that she wasn't offering a lot other than Obama+, a continuation of his kind of politics. It kinda represented the stagnation in Washington with the status quo. Trump supporters, rightly or wrongly, felt that wasn't working for them and wanted things shaken up.

Don't get me wrong I agree she is more hawkish than Obama, but to extrapolate that to mean she could have invaded Iran by now seems silly, and it's only being entertained because it's a counterfactual that can't be disproved. Maybe she could have started war with Russia as well, can't know for sure, but pretty unlikely.
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:08   #1586
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Both Obama and Clinton were intent on restarting the cold war with Russia. Trump said he'd be different. He lied about that too.

(Or Trump didn't liie per se, but once in office and everyone around him told him what was expected, that he had to carry on the same agenda and tear up his campaign promises, he just went along with it all because it was the path of least resistance. Whatever.)
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:25   #1587
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A known shit candidate versus one who might be shit but might not.
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Old 16-01-2018, 15:13   #1588
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When Yair Chaver first saw a photo of a steel gas valve cover taken on a sidewalk near the Elm Street Mission, the embedded six-pointed star design immediately struck him as intense, like “Oh my god, what where they thinking?”.

The star resembles the Star of David, which is often but not exclusively associated with Judaism, and in the middle of the symbol, the words: GAS VALVE.

“Anybody who’s aware of the gas chambers that the Nazis used to kill Jews, it seems like that would be a really intense thing to do, to put that symbol over a gas valve cover,” said Chaver, 50, of Santa Cruz.

Chaver, a self-employed the environmental law attorney, said although unrelated, the gas cap’s existence comes in the modern context of anti-Semitic and racist groups emboldened on the national level by the new presidential administration.

“Bothersome might be too strong of a word,” Chaver said of his impression of the utility cover. “It’s odd, or maybe a weird little hiccup. It’s like, why is it still here. Other people who notice it might have the same question. It’s just kind of odd leftover from before this was a thing and nobody thought to remove it.”

“So, yeah, there might be an insensitivity. If the city’s aware of it and they would think, ‘Oh gosh, this might be really intense for some people,’ maybe they would remove it or something like that,” Chaver said of one possible outcome of drawing attention to the cap.

Chaver said he was disturbed, and asked the Sentinel to investigate the plate’s origins.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/lif...s-valve-covers

These hateful Nazi white supremacist anti-semitic gas valve covers must be removed at once
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Old 16-01-2018, 21:43   #1589
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Bannon called to testify. Obviously hes a CIA operative. Obviously.
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Old 17-01-2018, 09:29   #1590
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