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Old 03-07-2017, 12:07   #2351
Malcolm Tucker
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Originally Posted by Stagflation View Post
Okay, I won't vote ever again.
lol don't cry, but you should know better than saying age determines intelligence or mental faculty, especially when it's about giving someone, a maximum of 24 months away from voting anyway, a say on something that will possibly effect the rest of their life
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:14   #2352
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I didn't say age determines intelligence, I said they weren't qualified to make the decision. It's more about wisdom than intelligence and not being swayed (as much) by propaganda.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:20   #2353
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They will be able to engage in it anyway if they wanted, they just can't physically mark the ballot until 18+ so what's the difference in terms of being swayed, or engaged? It's not as if they'll believe something over the course of that 24 months and then do a u-turn on their 18th birthday. Opinions can change over time but to suggest an entire bloc of voters will be that unpredictable is stretching it. Youngsters do tend to be more liberal in their views, but so what? Old people tend to be more conservative. Including all of them creates the balance and makes it democratic. It sounds like the core argument for excluding young people from voting is a fear they'll back things the older generation dislike. Tough.

I think you should give 16 and 17 year olds more credit tbh anyway, they're far less likely to get their information from the sunday tabloids like a big chunk of the existing electorate do. They tend to spend more time digesting stuff through social media, where there's more openness and transparency to the arguments than there will ever be in a paper copy of the Sunday Telegraph.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:31   #2354
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Watching the state of some my Scottish cousins exchanges it was clear the young were swayed by emotion and falsehoods. Bit like the EU referendum.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:36   #2355
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Using anecdotes of people on a tiny sample allows you to confirm any bias because you'll find easily influenced people in literally every possible voter demographic.

However I don't think there's any strong evidence that justifies precluding 16 and 17 year olds from voting, certainly not based on their cognitive ability to discern facts from fiction and weigh up the options any worse than we can. We're not talking about 7 year olds here, we're talking about people who we think are now capable of learning to drive, sitting tough exams, having sex. I think they can handle looking at political choices and ticking a box in the one they agree with the most.

If we really wanted to go down the route of excluding people in terms of capability of understanding what they're actually voting for, then there's evidence that the poorly educated working classes would be the first group to be scrutinised in that way. However that's not democratic and I wouldn't agree with it.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:44   #2356
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There's a really obvious argument for voting at 16. You are paying taxes but are unable to have a say in how they should be spent. You can even join the Army at 17, but apparently are not mature enough to vote?

The only reason it won't happen is it'll hurt the tories more than anyone else. Hopefully on the next Labour government or coalition, it'll be changed.
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This is now serious business.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:44   #2357
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Bring back aristocracy, I'm with Plato.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:48   #2358
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Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
There's a really obvious argument for voting at 16. You are paying taxes but are unable to have a say in how they should be spent. You can even join the Army at 17, but apparently are not mature enough to vote?

The only reason it won't happen is it'll hurt the tories more than anyone else. Hopefully on the next Labour government or coalition, it'll be changed.
I'd rather raise the age they can join the army.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:50   #2359
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Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
Using anecdotes of people on a tiny sample allows you to confirm any bias because you'll find easily influenced people in literally every possible voter demographic.

However I don't think there's any strong evidence that justifies precluding 16 and 17 year olds from voting, certainly not based on their cognitive ability to discern facts from fiction and weigh up the options any worse than we can. We're not talking about 7 year olds here, we're talking about people who we think are now capable of learning to drive, sitting tough exams, having sex. I think they can handle looking at political choices and ticking a box in the one they agree with the most.

If we really wanted to go down the route of excluding people in terms of capability of understanding what they're actually voting for, then there's evidence that the poorly educated working classes would be the first group to be scrutinised in that way. However that's not democratic and I wouldn't agree with it.
There's plenty of dumb cunts of all ages, but you have to draw the line somewhere and not go out of your way to gerrymander the results. Be honest, which you were a few posts ago about the pie chart which I respect If young people were all 'ultra right wing extremists' I doubt you'd be advocating lowering the age.
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:50   #2360
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I'd rather raise the age they can join the army.
Exactly, makes a lot more sense.
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