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Old 13-03-2018, 10:40   #41
Malcolm Tucker
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All of this is glossing over other suspicious deaths on our soil as well, not least Litvinenko.

I mean, why say that was probably Russia? Radiation wasn't discovered by just the Russians ya know.
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:44   #42
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Alfred Nobel invented high explosives. Isnt it possible that the 7/7 bombers were Swedish?
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:50   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
lol at this abomination of an opening paragraph, stopped reading after it



Before you start, I'm not saying Russia are definitely behind it and I'm on team Theresa, we're right to have scepticism but the logic he's using for his scepticism is retarded. A different government, from 15 years ago, misled parliament so this is a lie too. You can apply that to literally every governmental statement made since 2003 then, by the same benchmark everything is a lie and a conspiracy. Substantiate, otherwise it's just cherry picking. Unless it's equally likely May is being truthful because since 2003 there's been times the goverment has been honest?

Just lol at the antibiotics analogy, fucking hell. I know it's fashionable and edgy to read these kinda blogs that go against conventional thinking sometimes, but when the investigative journalism is tantamount to specious reasoning that even sixth formers grow out of, it's fucking cringe.

It goes without saying, or at least it should, that the origin of something is not the same as the status of something. The government's statement is based on the alleged status that the Russians developed and hold it. The government is aware of no other state or agents to have it; hence our demand for them to explain how it's got out of their hands.
Quote:
Incidentally, novachok is not a specific substance but a class of new nerve agents. Sources agree they were designed to be persistent, and of an order of magnitude stronger than sarin or VX. That is rather hard to square with the fact that thankfully nobody has died and those possibly in contact just have to wash their clothes.

From Putin’s point of view, to assassinate Skripal now seems to have very little motivation. If the Russians have waited eight years to do this, they could have waited until after their World Cup. The Russians have never killed a swapped spy before. Just as diplomats, British and otherwise, are the most ardent upholders of the principle of diplomatic immunity, so security service personnel everywhere are the least likely to wish to destroy a system which can be a key aspect of their own personal security; quite literally spy swaps are their “Get Out of Jail Free” card. You don’t undermine that system – probably terminally – without very good reason.

It is worth noting that the “wicked” Russians gave Skripal a far lighter jail sentence than an American equivalent would have received. If a member of US Military Intelligence had sold, for cash to the Russians, the names of hundreds of US agents and officers operating abroad, the Americans would at the very least jail the person for life, and I strongly suspect would execute them. Skripal just received a jail sentence of 18 years, which is hard to square with the narrative of implacable vindictiveness against him. If the Russians had wanted to make an example, that was the time.
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Israel has the nerve agents. Israel has Mossad which is extremely skilled at foreign assassinations. Theresa May claimed Russian propensity to assassinate abroad as a specific reason to believe Russia did it. Well Mossad has an even greater propensity to assassinate abroad. And while I am struggling to see a Russian motive for damaging its own international reputation so grieviously, Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation so grieviously. Russian action in Syria has undermined the Israeli position in Syria and Lebanon in a fundamental way, and Israel has every motive for damaging Russia’s international position by an attack aiming to leave the blame on Russia.

Both the Orbis and Israeli theories are speculations. But they are no more a speculation, and no more a conspiracy theory, than the idea that Vladimir Putin secretly sent agents to Salisbury to attack Skriapin with a secret nerve agent. I can see absolutely no reason to believe that is a more valid speculation than the others at this point.

I am alarmed by the security, spying and armaments industries’ frenetic efforts to stoke Russophobia and heat up the new cold war. I am especially alarmed at the stream of cold war warrior “experts” dominating the news cycles. I write as someone who believes that agents of the Russian state did assassinate Litvinenko, and that the Russian security services carried out at least some of the apartment bombings that provided the pretext for the brutal assault on Chechnya. I believe the Russian occupation of Crimea and parts of Georgia is illegal. On the other hand, in Syria Russia has saved the Middle East from domination by a new wave of US and Saudi sponsored extreme jihadists.
NUANCE... something autists like Visage cannot understand.
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:53   #44
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Ah, it's the Jews. Shoulda realised.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:00   #45
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https://news.sky.com/story/woman-die...hmond-11288015

Women killed by fire. Neanderthal Man suspected.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:15   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visage View Post
Ah, it's the Jews. Shoulda realised.
Obviously!
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:18   #47
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I see the BBC have obediently already decided Russia are guilty, based on their headline "Spy poisoning: How could the UK retaliate against Russia?"

LOLOL
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:33   #48
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Because the government have stated they'll retaliate against Russia. They're reporting our government's position and theorising about what it'll do. It's not unknown who the target of our response will be, but what the response may be.

If you're saying it should be:

Spy poisoning: How could the UK retaliate?


instead, then I'd say that's an immaterial difference based on May's statement because the article is still going to talk about Russia and nobody else.

True bias would be if the BBC were stating Russia was our target prior to her JIC meeting and commons speech
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Old 13-03-2018, 12:01   #49
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How should the UK retaliate against Russia for the spy poisoning.

It is a loaded question which is based on the premise that we've already basically figured out who did it, and that the British state - a regime known to lie all the time - acts in good faith and if they say something, they at least believe it, which we know is false.

Questions are worded in such a way as to push buttons in people's minds.

Like the other day the BBC asked 'Has the public changed its mind on Brexit?' which seems innocent except it implies that THEY HAVE changed their mind, and therefore if you haven't changed yours yet (to oppose Brexit) then you should too, because everyone else is, and if they are then you should obviously be following them.

Where is the truly objective journalism from the BBC, asking the sort of questions the Craig Murray article asks?
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Old 13-03-2018, 12:07   #50
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It's amazing how simplistic explanations are the norm when a Muslim blows himself up, but when one of your friends is accused is very very important to consider every single fringe notion that could contrive to demonstrate their innocence.

If Putin marched up to May on live TV and shot her in the face you'd claim he was hypnotised by Jews in MI6.
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