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Old 28-03-2018, 11:27   #1
Enoch Powell
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Default Conspiracy theories aren't real

This one was...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter

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Old 28-03-2018, 11:43   #2
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Some conspiracies have turned out to be real, but clearly a great number do not. That's why they have a reputation of being unreliable.

The problem with conspiracy theorists, and the reason they're denigrated often, is that they often mix up their emotional belief in something being true with objectivity and factual evidence. They also hinge their theory on things that turns out to false or it changes, and just rejig their theory to fit the facts, or bend the facts and so on. Essentially keeping the theory alive even in ever-diminishing probabilities. It follows religious parallels here, that even when more and more evidence is piled on regarding life, the universe and so on, those committed to their belief in God just move the goal posts and hide in the dark corners that science is yet to shine its light on. The conclusion with this behaviour is obvious, they want to be "right" more than they want the truth and they've attached their self-worth to being "right" or the closest equivalent, never quite being proved "wrong"

Another reason is when an official account of something is dismissed because of several "holes" or otherwise unanswered questions, and so forth, those are used to build a case of doubt surrounding the explanation. Fine, that's being sceptical and critical. That tends to all go out of the window though when the conspiracy theorists version is presented. It often has a lot more unexplained aspects and greater holes in it, but they're disregarded. Those critical of that version are dismissed and attacked as 'sheep' and so on.

I know sometimes the odd conspiracy is right, and those who doubted it have egg on their face, but who cares? I'd prefer that to us lowering our threshold of evidence and burden of proof in general and accepting a load of bullshit as potentially being true for no other reason than previous and unconnected extraordinary claims have been.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:07   #3
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That's fair but we live in a culture where the term conspiracy theorist is used to silence the questioning of official narratives.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:08   #4
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Governments lie all the time, about everything. Nothing they say can be trusted. They lied about WW2, they lied about Vietnam, they lied about the Iraq wars (both of them were fundamentally based on outright whopping lies), they lied about Libya, they're lying today about Syria, and they're lying today about Russia. And about many many other things.

But some fucking stupid people still call you a 'conspiracy theorist' when you don't just gratefully lap up the shit spewed out by the government and their media propaganda outlets.

Yes, the nice people on the news like Fiona Armstrong or Huw Edwards come across as lovely people, friendly, authoritative, you feel cosy listening to them. They're lying to you too. Maybe they don't even know it, but are happy to just read what's put in front of them. It doesn't make any difference at the end of the day.

Governments love the term 'conspiracy theory' because fucking stupid people then use it to denigrate anyone who questions the statements of proven habitual liars. Whacky theories about flat earth, little green men etc., the more whacky theories the better can all be lumped in with the very reasonable theories and all tainted with the same brush.

And some people are still too fucking stupid to grasp this, even when it's explained to them.

These people are often ostensibly highly 'educated' people. But all they have 'learned' is to be stupid.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:16   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagflation View Post
That's fair but we live in a culture where the term conspiracy theorist is used to silence the questioning of official narratives.
No we don't, conspiracy theories are free to be spoken about. There's no silencing of people talking about moon landings, or 7/7 or Diana's death. In fact, in some circles they're almost like a cult thing, documentaries about them all over youtube and even on TV. Some wear the 'conspiracy theorist' label as a badge of honour because they see it as being more open minded and intelligent than the average person.

You're confusing freedom of speech/expression with freedom from consequence. You can believe whatever you like, but in the same way, people are free to call you an idiot. Taking the piss out of you isn't the same as "being silenced"
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:19   #6
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When some US cunt journalist was questioning Syrian leader Assad, the US cunt was saying "but here I have evidence from the FBI..." and Assad just laughed and said "no, that's not evidence, that's from the FBI, it means nothing to me"... and he's right of course... but the point is that the US journalist seems to assume, like everybody else, that governments and the secret service etc. are an authority of truth, no questions asked, despite repeatedly lying and conspiring and murdering so many many times which people DO know about, let alone all the stuff that people don't know about. Beggars belief really.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:20   #7
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BBC News (and other media) enforce this, by constantly quoting government and official sources, and largely ignoring every other source... as if their quotes somehow add weight to the validity of the story.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:29   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Tucker View Post
No we don't, conspiracy theories are free to be spoken about. There's no silencing of people talking about moon landings, or 7/7 or Diana's death. In fact, in some circles they're almost like a cult thing, documentaries about them all over youtube and even on TV. Some wear the 'conspiracy theorist' label as a badge of honour because they see it as being more open minded and intelligent than the average person.

You're confusing freedom of speech/expression with freedom from consequence. You can believe whatever you like, but in the same way, people are free to call you an idiot. Taking the piss out of you isn't the same as "being silenced"
You're missing the point entirely. Of course we're 'free' to talk about moon landing hoaxes or Diana being assassinated. I just said that. It means the true stories get lost in the noise. They are dismissed as being 'conspiracy theories' because the term de facto means 'theories which are nonsense and can thus be ignored and laughed about'.

It's the same with Tor, yes? Used by people to avoid government censorship or tracking? It was invented by the security services and then made public PURELY BECAUSE they wanted the public to USE IT, why? So that the security services and their spies would then be able to use it too, and could hide in plain sight. Whereas if ONLY the security services and spies used it, their opponents would know that ALL traffic was theirs.

A lot of the truth is never hidden, it's easier to hide lies in plain sight. The truth is all around us, but people often just don't comprehend it. That's intentional. That's how we've been conditioned.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:34   #9
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But you've got it all figured out.
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Old 28-03-2018, 20:28   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Powell View Post
You're missing the point entirely. Of course we're 'free' to talk about moon landing hoaxes or Diana being assassinated. I just said that. It means the true stories get lost in the noise. They are dismissed as being 'conspiracy theories' because the term de facto means 'theories which are nonsense and can thus be ignored and laughed about'.

It's the same with Tor, yes? Used by people to avoid government censorship or tracking? It was invented by the security services and then made public PURELY BECAUSE they wanted the public to USE IT, why? So that the security services and their spies would then be able to use it too, and could hide in plain sight. Whereas if ONLY the security services and spies used it, their opponents would know that ALL traffic was theirs.

A lot of the truth is never hidden, it's easier to hide lies in plain sight. The truth is all around us, but people often just don't comprehend it. That's intentional. That's how we've been conditioned.
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